This is an IM conversation between Jonathan Davis and myself on the Bootstrap organization. It reminded me of a recent interview with John Mackey, CEO of Whole Foods posted on his blog. John is often labeled as a leftist by people who don't understand where he's coming from.

Thu Oct 27 14:38:03 2005

[14:38] Jonathan Davis: I talked with Andrew Park (from Business Week) today and it was funny, we got to the end of the conversation and he said to me, "Dude – you sound like a socialist when you talk about Bootstrap Austin!"

[14:39] Bijoy: How do you mean?

[14:39] Jonathan Davis: and I thought, when it comes to Bootstrap Austin, are we all Socialists?

[14:39] Bijoy: Ha! We couldn't be more opposite to socialists in our mission...

[14:40] Bijoy: I don't know what that means...we're socialists...

[14:40] Jonathan Davis: Are we socialists?

[14:40] Bijoy: Could it be that a capitalist society does not have space for non-profit institutions?
[14:40] Jonathan Davis: Well, let’s consider the facts: 1. We support each other 2. There's a strong trust level 3. Membership is open to anyone

[14:40] Bijoy: Actually, membership isn't open to anyone - only founding entrepreneurs.

[14:40] Jonathan Davis: Sure, but it feels like we might be Hippies?

[14:41] Bijoy: Absolutely, but that's not socialism!?

[14:41] Bijoy: Did you ever read "Democracy in America" by de Tocqueville? He was a French chap who visited the US in the 1850s and one of the things he commented upon was the amazing ability for Americans to gather and form groups and associations around topics of interest…

[14:41] Jonathan Davis: So it is semantics and people incorrectly throw around “socialism”…maybe we should call ourselves Entrepreneur Hippies

[14:42] Bijoy: sure, I’d buy that. But you seem to be implying that capitalists can't build communities of trust…which I totally disagree with. Capitalism is a way of organizing the transfer of goods and services. It says nothing about communities. Communities are more the purview of a political system: democracy.

[14:42] Jonathan Davis: Let’s take the truest definition of socialism: when a system is owned by the government. It would seem that people often call communities where there is peace and sharing “Socialistic”.

[14:43] Bijoy: sure, but you’re right, they are using the word incorrectly…and haven't read up on their Communist Manifesto

[14:43] Bijoy: Did you know that Marx's whole point was the abolition of private property? Insane!

[14:44] Jonathan Davis: I love the Communist Manifesto! I read it about once a year

[14:44] Bijoy: seriously? I’ve just recently been re-reading it for my second book, “The Bootstrap Manifesto”.

[14:44] Jonathan Davis: Sure, I was an economics student in college and I think that Communism beautiful when viewed from a vacuum.

[14:44] Bijoy: Absolutely, but it doesn't account for the selfish ambitions of the human animal and it kills individuality.

[14:44] Jonathan Davis: Correct! And as humans we want to be ambitious!

[14:45] Jonathan Davis: Think about this: if the "rules" of Bootstrap could be considered government, then it could be argued that we are in a Collectivist society

[14:45] Bijoy: in terms of?? Individuals are encouraged to trade with each other - whether through barter or transactions of services...how are you defining collectivist?

[14:46] Jonathan Davis: Collectivism is when the people are responsible for the production of everything- under the auspices of the government

[14:46] Bijoy: collectivist or libertarian? OK, sure, when you define it that way we might be collectivist…

14:46] Jonathan Davis: I’m a libertarian, but I'd make the argument that Bootstrap is not

[14:47] Bijoy: It might be, the organization provides a framework in which the individuals can add their input and creativity

[14:47] Jonathan Davis: You know, if we could convince you to take the role of Dictator, I could make the argument that it was Bolshevism

[14:47] Bijoy: LOL!

[14:47] Bijoy: Are you saying that we should consider changing aspects of Bootstrap?

[14:48] Jonathan Davis: No, not at all! I'm just saying, the more I got to telling Andrew about Bootstrap, we really are in a setting that is Socially Proletariat.

[14:49] Bijoy: Absolutely, but our response is entirely different to our "proletarian" situation. I don't think of myself as oppressed in any way.

[14:49] Bijoy: Marx wanted the proletariats to rise up and abolish property and make it all government owned.

[14:49] Jonathan Davis: Yes, instead of just admitting our fate as the poorest of the poor, we're doing our best to fight our way up

[14:49] Bijoy: We're going in exactly the opposite direction - encouraging them to own the factors of production and more importantly, we buy into the overarching capitalist enterprise and believe we can succed in it.

[14:50] Bijoy: We should post this entire exchange on the blog…

[14:50] Jonathan Davis: Do you think anyone would actually read it?

[14:55] Bijoy: Sure seems worth a try.